THE COPP FAMILY, Part 1: John Copp

THE COPP FAMILY, Part 1: John Copp

The five photographs seen here, featuring the life of John Copp, are part of a series of photographs of the Copp family, long-time residents of both Timberscombe and Wootton Courtenay. The likely donor of three of these photographs, Cyril Copp (the grandson of John Copp), is an example. He was born in Wootton Courtenay in 1918 and died in 2009, buried at St. Petrock's Church in Timberscombe (1). Mr. Copp (or members of his family) donated a mixture of these photographs (as well as the ones at SP-291, 292 and 293) to the West Somerset Rural Life Museum at Allerford and to the Timberscombe School, where Cyril Copp began his education from the 11th of June 1923 to the 14th of September 1928 (2).

Handwritten notations and some labelling on the photographs at the Rural Life Museum had dated the upper photograph as "1847?"and identified the little boy as "John Copp Jnr", born c. 1845. The older man was described as the boy's grandfather, without a name given. ( He was also described as the great great grandfather of Cyril Copp.) On the third photograph, the man in uniform (seated on the right) was again identified as "John Copp, Jnr" (the little boy grown up), with the gentleman seated to the left identified as his father and named "John Copp, Snr".

Some of this labelling is incorrect, yet that is completely understandable. There was a Copp family that lived for generations at Ranscombe, a large farm on the western edge of Wootton Courtney. They were not any of the Copps depicted in these photographs--although (unsurprisingly) in earlier times, both Copp families did overlap. Also the Copp family members, as depicted in the first and third photographs, have not made this easy--they kept changing their surnames! The little boy in the top photograph, was indeed born at Wootton Courtenay in 1845 (3). However on the 13th of July 1845, he was baptised at All Saints Church in Wootton Courtenay as John Gould, the son of Thomas Gould (4). By the times of their deaths, they were buried as John Copp and Thomas Copp (5).

Thomas, father of John Copp/Gould was born in 1820 to Sarah Gould, a single mother. His birthplace is usually recorded as Carhampton but he may have been born in the nearby village of Withycombe, within the Parish of Carhampton (6). Sarah Gould had her son baptised at St. John the Baptist Church in Carhampton on the 24th of December 1820, where he was recorded as "Thomas", "base-born son of Sarah Gould" of "Carhampton" (7). Sarah was probably 19-years-old, very likely born in 1801, also at Withycombe, the daughter of William and Betty Gould (8).

The father of Thomas is considered to have been Richard Taylor Copp, born the 21st of February 1797 in Carhampton (9), certainly into a more established family than Sarah's (and include the Copps who were later in Wootton Courtenay at Ranscombe Farm). Richard Taylor Copp was the son of James Frank Copp, born 1767 in Timberscombe, who married Joanna Taylor at St. John the Baptist Church at Carhampton in 1796 (10). James Frank Copp was from a family seemingly in the area from the later 1500s or the early 1600s with a great, great, great great grandfather, John Copp, likely born in Bridgwater but who died in Minehead in 1616. Some sources have his son, also a John Copp, marrying Margaret Bowden in Timberscombe in 1636 but more definitely, he died in Wootton Courtenay in 1678. His son, Robert Copp, likely died in Dunster in 1719 and his son, also a Robert, had a son, John Copp, born in Timberscombe in 1710. This third John Copp married Martha Harding in Minehead in 1731 and their son, a fourth John Copp was born that same year in Timberscombe. He married Mary Payne and they were the parents of James Frank Copp (11). The older brother of James Frank Copp was Harding Payne Copp (clearly named after the maiden names of his grandmother and mother), who married Jane Taylor, the sister of Joanna Taylor, the wife of James Frank. Before 1784, Harding Payne Copp moved his family into Ranscombe (12).

It is not known if Richard Taylor Copp acknowledged being the father of Thomas Gould. He may have. It is not at all clear what happened to Sarah Gould after baptising her son (13). Almost five years after the birth of Thomas, Richard Taylor Copp married Elizabeth Cavill in October 1825 at Bristol (14). Within the year, their first son, also named Richard Taylor Copp, was born in Dunster, after which they were living at a house called Watkins, back in Carhampton (15). He and Elizabeth had seven more children born in Carhampton, where their family appears to have become active members of the Wesleyan Methodist Church (16).

At All Saints Church in Wootton Courtenay, on the 4th of May 1845, Thomas Gould married Ann Burnell (17). She had been born in 1823 at Wootton Courtenay, the daughter of James and Priscilla (nee Cowlin) Burnell (18). On the Marriage Register, Thomas listed his profession as "Labourer"and his father as "Richard Gould". It is a provocative listing. Richard Gould could well be a later husband of Sarah Gould (of which there is no known record) and may have nothing to do with Richard Taylor Copp. In the coming decades,"Copp" was adopted by Thomas and his family as their surname but at the time of his marriage, this may have been a nudge to acknowledge his actual father. (Or perhaps "Gould" was entered instead of "Copp" simply as a mistake. )

As stated, just over two months after Thomas and Ann Gould marry, their son will be baptised as "John Gould" in the same church. As also stated, in the top photograph, dated 1847, the older man has been identified as the boy's grandfather but was not named. If he is little John's maternal grandfather, the death date of William Gould --possibly the father of Sarah Gould--is unknown. If he is a paternal grandfather, James Frank Copp was still in Carhampton, living until 1849 (19). It is presumptuous speculation but this photograph was saved for generations by the Copp family and in 1847, to even have a photograph such as this would be a luxury and more likely be the property of an established family. Finally, the second photograph above is of a painting of James Frank Copp, that was shared in 2023 by his great, great, great, great. great grandson, Richard Copp (20). The man in the portrait certainly appears to be the man in the top photograph, each with the same distinctive nose and sideburns (although the painting lacks the beard of the photograph). If indeed the man holding his two-year-old grandson is James Frank Copp, it would seem the child was recognised as the son of his son, Richard Taylor Copp, three years before he married Elizabeth Cavill.

On the 1851 Census, five-year-old John Gould was living with his parents, Thomas and Ann Gould at Cuffs, a farmhouse that was later demolished but was situated between Kitswell Farm and Totterdown, east of Timberscombe. Their family now included four-year-old Sarah, born in Wootton Courtney, followed by Mary and James, aged two and one month, both baptised at St. Petrock's, with the surname of "Gould."

Yet by the 1861 Census, 15-year-old John Gould had become John Copp, working as a servant in Huish Champflower, where he tended the garden of Mary Stone, a retired "dairywoman". Richard Taylor Copp had died at the age of 59 in July 1856, living at West Street Farm in Withycombe and was buried at Carhampton (21)--which may (or may not) have been a factor in John Gould becoming John Copp.

The third photograph seen above is of a framed daguerreotype that was dated 1864. Pictured on the right in his uniform, John, probably 19-years-old, had newly enlisted with the Plymouth Division of the Royal Marines Light Division, where he will serve for the next 21 years (22). It appears that at this time, he may be the only member of his family using "Copp" as his surname. His father, in the dark suit, at least officially was still Thomas Gould. On the 1861 Census, Thomas continued working as a farm labourer, now in Upton, Somerset. New additions to his family were Ellen, born in Luccombe, Thomas, born in Dunster and Eliza, born in Upton. They were all baptised as "Gould". Reflecting the itinerant nature of his profession, by 1863, he, Ann and the children were back in Wootton Courtenay, where he worked at Huntscott, a farmstead formerly part of Wootton Courtenay Estate before it was broken up and sold in 1921 (23). Here is where the eighth and ninth of their children were born, William in 1862 and Elizabeth in 1866. They too were baptised as "Gould". Yet by the time of the 1871 census, the surname of each family member was "Copp".

Also on the 1871 Census, living next door to the Copp family at Huntscott was Joseph Baker, another farm labourer, with his wife, Hannah (nee Passmore) Baker and their seven-year-old daughter, Jane, as well as two younger boys, Eli and Charles. Mr. Baker died in 1875, was buried at All Saints Church and in 1877, Hannah Baker married John Bryant (24). Hannah did not have much luck keeping husbands alive, as Mr. Bryant passed away in 1885, and is also buried at All Saint's (25). In that same year, John Copp retired from the Marines and joined his family at Huntscott. On the 7th of April 1888, 42-year-old John Copp married 25-year-old Jane Baker. On the Marriage Register, John described himself now as "Labourer" and where the name and profession of his father was required, "Thomas Copp, Labourer (deceased)" was written (26). Thomas Copp had died in 1886 and was buried at All Saint's Church on the 9th of June 1886 (27).

By the 1891 Census, John and Jane Copp had moved to the house called Pools, part of the Wootton Courtenay Estate and fronting the village's main road to the south. In modern times it is called Rose Cottage (28). With them at Pools was their one-year-old son, Walter John Copp, born in 1889 (29). Also living at Pools were Hannah Bryant, identified as "Mother-in-Law" and "Widow" and a 5-year old boy named Charles Baker, oddly listed as "Boarder". Charles was the son of Jane, baptised at All Saints Church on the 27th of May 1885, in a private ceremony where his mother was listed as "Jane Baker, single woman"(30). Later Charles Baker will be identified as Walter's half-brother but considering that John Copp would have known about his father's birth (and was to first to assume his rightful family name) it seems harsh that his wife's first child would be designated as "Boarder".

The fourth photograph depicts John and Jane Copp, surrounded by all of their children. They still lived at Pools, although on the 1901 Census it was called No. 6 Duttons. As part of the Wootton Courtenay Estate, their home was owned by the Dutton family (31). The photograph is not dated but may have been taken around 1910, possibly the last year that all of their children would still be in the village. John, now bearded, has medals on his jacket, likely attesting to his 21 years with the Royal Marines. He died in 1919, aged 74 years (32).

Walter John Copp stands on the left end behind his parents. In this photograph he is probably 20 or 21-years old and would already be working as a tailor (33). Walter is the only sibling that will remain in Wootton Courtenay and Timberscombe for the rest of his life, would become the father of Cyril Copp and is profiled at SP-291.

On the other end of the back row is Charles Baker. On 1901 Census, aged 15, Charles was staying in the Clifton District of Bristol with his uncle, also named Charles Baker (Jane's younger brother). The elder Mr. Baker was a Police Constable and Charles must have been with him and his family for a while, as he was working at a local factory. The younger Charles was back in Wootton Courtenay by 1909, when he was photographed (as seen at SP-166) with Walter Copp on a cricket team made up of Timberscombe and Wootton Courtenay players. When Charles was 25-years-old in 1911, he actually was a "Boarder" at a house in Pontypridd, Glamorganshire, where he found work as a "Letter Fixer" (34). In June 1912, Charles married Beatrice Ellen Twinney in Glyntaff, Glamorganshire and their son, William Charles was born the next May (35). After the outbreak of war, Charles served with the Army Service Corps from 1915 to 1919 and his daughter, Edna was born in 1916 (36). During the 1939 England and Wales Register, the entire family was still together at 10 Alexandra Road in Pontypridd, with Charles being a retired "Confectioner's Window Dresser", Beatrice, a Newsagent and William Charles and his wife, Olga (nee Ada) Baker operating a Fruit and Potatoes Shop, where Edna also worked. as "Assistant". Charles Baker died at Pontypridd in April 1952 (37).

The other three people in the fourth photograph are John and Jane Copp's younger children. Walter is resting his hand on the shoulder of Beatrice Elizabeth Copp, born 7 October 1891 and known by her family as "Beaty" (38). In 1921 she married John Hartnell, who had served during the war with the Cornwall's Light Infantry (39). On the 1939 England and Wales Register, Mr. and Mrs. Hartnell lived on the High Street in Dunster, where he was listed as a disabled ex-serviceman. John Hartnell passed away in 1969 and Beaty died in 1976. They are buried together at the Grabbist Hill Cemetery in Dunster (40).

Standing between Walter and Charles is Arthur Willie Copp, born 21 June 1897 (41) At the time of this photograph he was an Apprentice Tailor, presumably to his brother, Walter (42). In 1916 Arthur married Lily Violet Boon, born in Lambeth, London (43). Later they lived in Dunster, where Arthur was a "Confectioner's and Tobacconist Dealer", situated at their home on 17 West Street (44). While Arthur and Lily were there, it was divided into two residences called The Ovals, later becoming a single (and listed) house, The Oval (45).

After the death of her husband in 1919, Jane Copp had continued living at Pools--as it was again called. The house had been divided into two residences and Jane occupied No. 1 Pools. On the 14th of April 1921, James Huntly Dutton, its current owner, auctioned off the entire Wootton Courtenay Estate. The fifth photograph is of Pools, as printed when it was listed as Lot No. 20. In the Sales Particulars it was noted that No. 1 Pools was still "let on a Weekly Tenancy to Mrs. Copp at rental of 1s. per week"(46). As she got older, Jane Copp moved in with Arthur and Lily Copp at The Ovals. By the 1939 Register, she was listed as "incapacitated". Jane Baker Copp passed away in 1943 (47).

In the photograph, Charles Baker rests his hand on the shoulder of his half-sister, Ettie (but called "Eff") Copp, born 16 October 1899 (48). In 1929, she married Arthur Robert Burgess (49), a mason and on the 1939 Register, they lived at No. 5 Council House in Allerford. Mr. Burgess passed away in 1954 and when Eff died in July 1979, she was buried with her husband at All Saint's Church in Selworthy (50).

Anonymous /
Anonymous /
Anonymous /
Anonymous /
Norbury-Smith & Co. 5 George Street, Hanover Square, London

c. 1847
c. 1840s
1864
c. 1910
1921

English

c. 1847 photograph of John Gould (later Copp) and his grandfather / a painting of James Frank Copp, possible grandfather of John Gould, c. 1840s / 1864 photograph of John Copp at the time of his enlistment with the The Plymouth Division of the Royal Marines Light Infantry and his father, Thomas Gould / John and Jane Copp with their children, c. 1910 / Pools, as depicted in the Sales Particulars of the auction of the Wootton Courtenay Estate on 14 April 1921 / Timberscombe and Wootton Courtenay

c. 2019
2023
c. 2019
c. 2019
c. 2019

Gift

PEOPLE: Named / Timberscombe and Wootton Courtney
PLACES : Cottages / Wootton Courtenay

Good

entered by Tom Sperling

2023

W X L

cm

14.5 X 9.5
11 X 10
11,5 X 8
9 X 14.5
14 X 14.5

St. Petrock's History Group

(1) England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1916-2007 and UK and Ireland, Find A Grave Index, 1300s-Current (2) Timberscombe School ADMISSION REGISTER, 1897-1944, No. 420 (3) Somerset, England, Marriage Registers, Bonds and Allegations, 1754-1914, 1851,1861, 1871, 1891 and 1911 England Censuses and England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 (4) Somerset, England, Church of England, Baptisms, 1813-1914 (5) England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Indexes, 1916-2007 (6) the 1881 England Census has Thomas Copp born in Withycombe (7) Somerset, England, Church of England, Baptisms, 1813-1914 (8) Somerset, England, Church of England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1531-1812 (9) England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 (10) Somerset, England, Church of England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1531-1812 and Somerset, England, Church of England, Marriage Registers, Bonds and Allegations, 1754-1914 (11) Somerset, England, Church of England , Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1531-1812, Jones-Hamlin Family Tree, Ancestry.com, UK, Extracted Probate Records, 1269-1975, UK, Extracted Probate Records, 1269-1975, Somerset, England, Church of England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1531- 1812, England Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975, Somerset, England, Church of England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1531-1812, UK Poll Books and Electoral Registers, 1834, UK Poll Books and Electoral Registers, 1846 and UK and Ireland, Find A Grave Index, 1300s-Current (12) Somerset, England, Church of England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1531-1812, Somerset, England, Marriage Registers, Bonds and Allegations, 1754-1914, UK, Poll Books and Electoral Registers, 1834, 1841 and 1851 England Censuses and the birth of Mary Cobb in Wootton Courtenay in 1784, Geneanet Community Trees Index (13) It has been suggested that on the 1841 Census, Sarah Gould, 40 years old and born in Somerset was living in Castle Cary, Somerset, married to John Gould, a Draper. The age is likely correct but it would be unlikely her husband would assume her surname. The 1851 Census indicates this Sarah Gould was born in Castle Cary and Somerset, England, Marriage Registers, Bonds and Allegations, 1754-1914 has her maiden name as "Nancolas". It has also been suggested Sarah Gould died and was buried in Carhampton on December 25, 1858. That unfortunate Sarah Gould was three weeks old, as indicated by Somerset, England, Church of England, Burials, 1813-1914 (14) Bristol, England, Church of England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936 (15) UK, Poll Books and Electoral Registers, 1834 and UK. Poll Books and Electoral Registers, 1846 (16) England & Wales, Non-Conformed and Non-Parochial Registers, 1567-1936 (17) Somerset, England, Marriage Registers, Bonds and Allegations, 1754-1914 (18) England, Select Marriages, 1538-1975 and Somerset, England, Church of England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1531-1812 (19) England, Select Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991 and Somerset, England, Church of England, Burials, 1813-1914 (20) as shared on Ancestry.com by Richard Copp, Richard Copp Family Tree, in March 2015 with the title, "James Copp, Husband of Joanne Taylor" (21) 1851 England Census and Somerset, England, Church of England, Burials, 1813-1914 (22) 1861 and 1871 England Censuses and as handwritten on the reverse of a copy of this photograph at the West Somerset Rural Life Museum in Allerford, Somerset (23) Historic Environment Record, Exmoor National Park, MEM24781 (24) Somerset, England, Church of England Burials, 1813-1914 and England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005 (25) UK and Ireland, Find A Grave Index, 1300s-Current (26) Somerset, England, Marriage Registers, Bonds and Allegations, 1754-1914 (27) UK and Ireland, Find A Grave Index, 1300s-Current (28) Historic Environment Record, Exmoor National Park, MEM24749 (29) England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915 (30) Somerset, England, Church of England, Baptisms, 1813-1914 (31) 1901 and 1911 England Censuses and Historic Environment Record, Exmoor National Park, MEM24749 (32) England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 (33) 1911 England Census (34) 1911 Wales Census (35) England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915 (36) British Army World War I Service Records, 1914-1920 and England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1916-2007 (37) England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 (38) England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915 and as handwritten on the reverse of the photograph at the West Somerset Rural Life Museum at Allerford, Somerset (39) England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2007 and UK, World War I Ledgers and Index Cards, 1914-1923 (40) England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Indexes, 1916-2007 and UK and Ireland, Find A Grave Index, 1300s-Current (41) 1939 England and Wales Register (42) 1911 England Census (43) England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915 and England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 (44) 1939 England and Wales Register (45) Historic Environment Records, Exmoor National Park, MSO12132 (46) as printed in the Sales Particulars for the Wednesday, April 14, 1921 auction of the Wootton Courtenay Estate, as represented by Joyce, Risdon and Hosegood, Solicitors, Minehead and auctioned by Norbury-Smith & Co., 5 George Street, Hanover Square, London (47) England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 (48) Somerset, England, School Registers, 1860-1949 (49) England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2007 (50) England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Indexes, 1916-2007 and UK and Ireland, Find A Grave Index, 1300s-Current

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